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Religious terrorism

R

RedRod

Guest
#1
I would like the opinion of forum members on a parent who makes it explicit to their child that any parental love is wholly conditional upon the child repeatedly and demonstrably declaring its acceptance of the parents' religious beliefs. That is, the parent requires outward expressions of devotion by the child to the parents particular religious denomination and that, without such declarations forthcoming, the child will be continually told it is a sinner damned to eternal fiery torture and denied normal parental affection.
 

Manya

here an there
Admin
Joined
Jul 30, 2009
Messages
17,912
#2
interesting topic :thinking

i guess my opinion that its a matter of degree and the effect it has on the child.

religious/spiritual/moral/ethical/cultural/etc values are an integral part of ones identity, and of course parents want/need to pass them on to their children. i think its perfectly normal and a good thing. i mean, its good to know who you are, what your heritage is, what your ancestors believed, how they lived, etc. also good to be raised with the basic ideas that we dont kill, dont steal, dont covet our neighbors wives, etc - and not just cuz acting otherwise might land you in jail, but cuz doing these things is morally wrong. that understanding can form at any age, but its best for the person and the society as a whole if this understanding forms in childhood. and parents play a large (though not exclusive) part in that. additionally, religious/spiritual practices can be a source of comfort/inner peace/inspiration/etc for many people. one can learn how to self-regulate in this way at any age as well, but learning it in childhood is better imho, provided that its a positive experience. i mean, it can be comforting for a child to know that theres an omnipotent g8d who loves them and will help them if they need it. holidays offer joy, structure, and a sense of belonging to the community. idk, that every fall we eat turkey with cranberry sauce and think of all the things we're grateful for in life (thanksgiving) - its a good thing imho, for both children and adults, and i think its good when parents provide some sorta framework like that, pass on these traditions to their children, so that theres a sense of continuity, something that their children can pass on to their own children as well. when a mother teaches her daughter how to bake gingerbread cookies for christmas, or how to braid challah for shabbat, or whatever their religious traditions are - i think its a great thing on many levels.

im aware that members of many religious denominations believe that theirs is the only "right" one while all others are destined to eternal hell. personally i dont think i believe that. im not sure what exactly afterlife looks like; idk if theres a hell and, if so, how exactly it works. but i doubt people get sorted based on their beliefs rather than actions. cuz that would go against very basic fairness and kindness, and, i mean, thats not what i believe about g8d. i dont believe g8d will send billions of muslims to eternal hell, regardless of how they act, just because they dont believe he had a son named jesus christ - and that he would spare christians who do believe in jesus christ but abuse their own children in his name. that just doesnt make sense to me, so i kinda doubt that thats how it works. however, i can see how people who believe this would teach this to their children. kinda like i teach kids that eating cheeseburgers is wrong - im sure it seems bizarre/meaningless/cruel/etc to many people too.

from moral/religious standpoint - most religions promote unconditional love, acceptance, support, non-judgment. there are indeed communities that instill hatred instead, idk, westboro baptist church preaches that "god hates america" for example. matter of choosing your beliefs i guess. to me, when theres a conflict, with a child or with anyone else, and especially if religion is involved somehow - to me its important to sit down and figure out what do i actually believe here, if deep in my heart i believe im doing the right thing or not, if this is what g8d wants me to do or not, and, if so, what does that say about g8d. i mean, if a 5yo doesnt wanna braid challah with me - i highly doubt g8d would want me to ostracize her for it. cuz its cruel and doesnt resolve the problem in any way. i believe g8d wants us to love and support each other, not abuse little kids. so if i get urges to take out my frustration on this child - im in the wrong, need to take a breather and rethink my strategy.

and from practical/secular standpoint - parents are required to provide a safe and sane home environment where their child can grow into a functional adult. thats not optional, failure to do that constitutes child abuse/neglect, a crime that can result in prison time. parents who are unable/unwilling to provide healthy environment for their children - need to contact authorities, so that the child can be placed elsewhere. constantly threatening a child with eternal hell, to the point that they develop anxiety, nightmares, etc - is abusive, and can result in removal of the child and criminal charges for the parent. there was a story for example, some woman used to tell her 7yo granddaughter that shes a rotten kid so witches will come at night and take her to hell. then, at night, she would dress up as a witch, wake up the kid, and drag her to the basement, letting her "escape" the last minute. that grandma went to prison for it. some parents go further than that, we got a bunch of stories on our memorial wall, of kids/teens/adults who were murdered by their parents over religion. young children who their parents believed were possessed by d8mons, teenagers who wouldnt wear hijab, adults who divorced their spouses and/or dated someone outside of their faith/class/etc. its tragic, when people use religion as justification for abuse/crime. not uncommon, unfortunately. people use all sorts of beliefs to justify abuse; we've had a member whose mom tortured him throughout his childhood, from birth to adulthood, because she believed men were rapists. kinda nuts, the variety of excuses people come up with, to abuse their kids.

sorry for the lengthy post, i guess what im trying to say is - its a matter of extent/context, like with other forms of abuse. idk, slapping a 2yo on the hand while they are trying to grab a burning candle - not omg abusive imho. beating a 10yo to bruises - is abusive. telling a 12yo how to use tampons, once - perfectly normal; repeatedly insisting that she does it in front of the parent, "to make sure shes doing it right" - abusive. telliing a child that theres a g8d who loves them and will help them, but they need to behave themselves - fine. constantly threatening them with eternal hell - abusive. something like that, idk :bf
 

sarahoknow

Part Of The Crowd
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
71
#3
To impose any kind of idea or will upon a child is abusive...even if the intentions are based somehow in good faith. I spent years living as my auntie wanted me to, trying to fit into the image of an appropriate young lady, who displayed the correct attributes my auntie herself portrayed to the local church community. I was an example of how well my auntie was doing to bring me up correctly, she took so much praise for taking me in and turning me into a fine young lady. Of course this meant following her ideas on faith and her interpretation of Gods word with the threat of a beating if I ever dared question her authority or fail to do as she commanded. She knew best and was to be thanked for saving me from a sinful pathway to unrighteousness. Sometimes people believe something so strongly they can't see beyond their own ideas and can't accept any other version.
 

Jane

Lark Ascending
Got Keys
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
26,233
#4
For me it is a complex thing -

Agree it is a parents duty/right to socialise their kids (bring them up to function as productive, moral, caring member of the society they live in...passed on social norms) however, I also believe there is also a line that when crossed causes (maybe unintentional harm to the child) eg when say as a teen the child starts to develop their own opinions and feelings...example would be having different thoughts about religion (could also be there sexuality) and their parents reject these feelings or have created a home environment that make it nigh on impossible for the teen to express their own evolving opinions/feelings - discuss and explore them....process them...instead the parents brook no questioning insist kids toe the family line. Reckon that does not help the kid...may cause them trauma.

Remember (at about 14-15 or so) having real doubts about some of the religious tenets my family adhered to...deciding to keep these to myself rather than exposing them to a likely hostile reception...bided my time until I was no longer lived in my parents' home...under their control before I seriously outed how I truly felt...just seemed safer that way.

With my son, I did teach him values and moral imperatives as a child, however as he matured I tried to give him space to explore all the available options - to develop his own opinion on things. Now (as an adult) his religious beliefs do not necessarily match mine, (imo understandably so - given we are different people). In my eyes this is not a problem -in fact can lead to some interesting conversations :)...probably, no different really from the mismatches in our political beliefs...our sexual preferences. Bottom line is he may live his life differently than me, believe in different things, but when it comes down to it, this does not detract from his decency...one I like to think my influence/socialising helped him develop.
 

Tasha1701D

Fort Security Chief & Stargazer
Got Keys
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
8,461
#5
I grew up being abused in the name of a particular belief system, and yeah, I was harmed by it. But that belief system was corrupted by those abusing me, it wasn't the belief system that was the problem, it was how those who were abusing me used and altered and corrupted that belief system. I struggle with what to believe now, but agree with what Manya has said that part of belonging to a family and a community is having a sense of who you are and where you fit in the grand scheme of things. I actually still adhere to most of the beliefs of the uncorrupted belief system that was used to abuse me. I have had to pick through things and process the trauma of what was NOT part of that belief system in order to find what I believe.

I kinda figure that maybe figuring out what you actually believe from what you grew up with is a part of growing up for most ppl, cuz after I was adopted out of the abuse, my parents were believers of the same spiritual system that had been corrupted and used to abuse me. They were saddened by the fact that I struggled with beliefs, not because I was going to suffer eternal bad consequences, but because of what had been done to me in the name of something that was so integral and important to their identity and the identities of my new siblings. I saw my siblings go through struggles finding their "belief system identity" as they matured and started wanting to assert that they were separate from my parents. They were not punished at all, but were encouraged to ask questions, explore whatever they wanted to explore, and join another faith (or no faith) if that was where they felt they belonged. A few did move on to different belief systems, one sibling has no desire for any belief system and became atheist, and two siblings still actively participate in the belief system of their birth. My parents supported each of us as we began to search for answers and as we searched for our own spiritual identity.

As far as my feelings towards those who abused me in the name of a belief system they absolutely corrupted, they're mixed. I don't hate them, I don't wish them any ill will, they're welcome to practice their beliefs as long as they don't harm others, etc. I have no involvement with them, do not allow them in my life at all, and I honestly do not spend a lot of my mental and emotional energy thinking about them. I spend time in therapy processing the trauma of what has happened to me as a result of what they did, but that's as far as things go. It's my life, not theirs, so I'm gonna spend my emotional energy on things other than them. I don't wanna condemn them or anything, cuz that's spending energy on them instead of myself.

I feel that in non-abusive situations, many things are passed down from the parents to the children, like my adoptive parents passed to me. I'm glad that I got so much of my identity from them, and don't feel that them sharing their beliefs, their recipes, their cultural traditions, or any other facets that make up their identity was abusive to me in any way. I feel that it was their job as parents to pass down what they knew and who they were so that I would have a foundation on which to build my own life.
 
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